As they progressed, the line of Roman troops—already seven or eight miles long, including local auxiliaries, camp followers and a train of baggage carts pulled by mules—became dangerously extended. Meanwhile, a violent rain and wind came up that separated them still further, while the ground, that had become slippery around the roots and logs, made walking very treacherous for them, and the tops of the trees kept breaking off and falling down, causing much confusion. The nearest Roman base lay at Haltern, 60 miles to the southwest.
So Varus, on the second day, pressed on doggedly in that direction. On the third day, he and his troops were entering a passage between a hill and a huge swamp known as the Great Bog that, in places, was no more than 60 feet wide. As the increasingly chaotic and panicky mass of legionnaires, cavalrymen, mules and carts inched forward, Germans appeared from behind trees and sand-mound barriers, cutting off all possibility of retreat.
Varus understood that there was no escape. Rather than face certain torture at the hands of the Germans, he chose suicide, falling on his sword as Roman tradition prescribed. Most of his commanders followed suit, leaving their troops leaderless in what had become a killing field. Only a handful of survivors managed somehow to escape into the forest and make their way to safety. The news they brought home so shocked the Romans that many ascribed it to supernatural causes, claiming a statue of the goddess Victory had ominously reversed direction.
They were an informed, dynamic, rapidly changing people, who practiced complex farming, fought in organized military units, and communicated with each other across very great distances. More than 10 percent of the entire imperial army had been wiped out—the myth of its invincibility shattered. In the wake of the debacle, Roman bases in Germany were hastily abandoned.
Augustus, dreading that Arminius would march on Rome, expelled all Germans and Gauls from the city and put security forces on alert against insurrections. Six years would pass before a Roman army would return to the battle site. The scene the soldiers found was horrific. Heaped across the field at Kalkriese lay the whitening bones of dead men and animals, amid fragments of their shattered weapons. Human heads were nailed everywhere to trees. Germanicus, ordered to campaign against the Cherusci, still under the command of Arminius, pursued the tribe deep into Germany.
But the wily chieftain retreated into the forests, until, after a series of bloody but indecisive clashes, Germanicus fell back to the Rhine, defeated. But as his power grew, jealous rivals began to defect from his cause. With the abdication of the Romans from Germany, the Kalkriese battlefield was gradually forgotten. Even the Roman histories that recorded the debacle were lost, sometime after the fifth century, during the collapse of the empire under the onslaught of barbarian invasions.
As a consequence, Arminius was hailed as the first national hero of Germany. At 87 feet high, and mounted on an foot stone base, it was the largest statue in the world until the Statue of Liberty was dedicated in Not surprisingly, the monument became a popular destination for Nazi pilgrimages during the s. But the actual location of the battle remained a mystery. More than sites, ranging from the Netherlands to eastern Germany, were proposed.
He had previously assisted archaeologists in England during his spare time, using a metal detector to search for traces of Roman roads. The British officer promised to turn over to the museum anything he found. He pored over old maps, studied regional topography and read extensively about the battle, including a treatise by 19th-century historian Theodor Mommsen, who had speculated that it took place somewhere near Kalkriese, although few agreed with him.
Roman Empire and Battle of the Teutoburg Forest Yeah, the later emperors were more focused towards maintaining borders rather than expanding them so although the Roman Empire might increase in its land, there won't be a overwhelmingly big difference. Originally Posted by Geoffrey S. Expeditions may have been possible, but ultimately the existing urban centres essential for Romanization elsewhere were simply not present in Germania; Germanicus' repeated victories show that maintaining Roman presence there was simply not feasible.
Total Awards : 4. Same time like Teutoburg Forest were great rising into Panonia and prowinces located near Danube. Romans had to sent there half of their forces from Germania. They were crushing that rising for some years. When Germans won battle at Teutoburg Forest, they could easy move to Galia and capture that country practically without reisistance. They didn't it because of tribal rivalisation beetwen them. SO Romans had time to finish into Panonia and move units to Germania.
If Romans won, they would stay into Germania. I have heard theory that great rising stopped Roman attemps to capture Bohemia and cental Europe but I think they were too weak to do that. Anyway they were too weak to capture more territory with units they had into Germania. John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust. Originally Posted by KrooK. If Romans won that battle - nothing would happen.
Last edited by cunctator; at The Romans were already building - as Cuncatator pointed out - and there is nothing magical in the nowadays german soil which doesn't allow for large human settlements. Soft rule, many sandals and pax romana coupled with time should have done wonders Roman Empire and Battle of the Teutoburg Forest if the romans had expanded into germany if they had won the battle of teutoberg forest, then they would have probably lost to the remainder of the bulk of germanic tribes and Cisalpine and Gaul Refugees here.
The numbers of germans would have been staggering because the Goths and Huns etc would have been able to beat back the germans with combined force. Originally Posted by General Boreaus Brittanicus. But I would like to see a 'what if' scenario such as Augustus who eagered to subdue Germanic tribe instead of pulling back the Roman forces, and as in question number 3: The Romans managed to make most if not all 'Gaul' people in France 'civilised' and integrate them into the Empire.
What if same thing happened to most of Germanic people? Maybe these Germanic people can become hardy soldiers placed in front-line and used at troubling area with another foreign powers?
Who knows, I'm not an expert on this but maybe you can share more of your thoughts on this? By the way, I read that one of the fundamental long-term result of the battle is the estabelishment of 'boundary' between Latin-speaking area and Germanic-speaking area, maybe not just from this battle, but the fact remain Germania is not occupied by Romans. It'll also be interesting to know if it happened otherwise and one of the reasons I asked question no.
Look at Roman history - Teutoburg Forest wasn't their biggest defeat. In Roman times, military equipment was forged or repaired in smithies that tended to use melted-down armor as their raw material. The longer a unit was stationed in a particular area, the more likely its equipment was to have an identifiable metallurgical fingerprint, said researchers.
The legions of Varus were stationed along the Rhine River, the frontier between the Roman Empire and the unsubdued German tribes, for decades. By contrast, the troops of Germanicus, who conducted a punitive campaign against Germanic tribes six years after the Battle of Teutoburg Forest, were drawn from regions as far away as today's Spain and Hungary. By analyzing the metal found in Kalkriese, researchers hope to identify which troops fought there.
If it was the soldiers of Germanicus, then it wasn't the location of the legendary battle Germans call "Varusschlacht.
Whatever the research yields this year, the myth surrounding the battle is a topical lesson in the enduring power of fake news. From the 16th century onwards, nationalists began hailing Arminius, or "Hermann," as Martin Luther called him, as the heroic liberator who created the German nation.
Read more: 15th-century disposable cups found in Martin Luther's Wittenberg. The more than 50 Germanic tribes of the ancient period were the forefathers of many European nations, not just the Germans. And Arminius didn't unite them - he persuaded five tribes to join him, and he was killed by members of his own tribe a few years later. In the 19th century, when Germany was fragmented into dozens of states and struggling to unify, Hermann served as the perfect symbol of national unity.
Portrayed as a blond, muscle-bound warrior, he featured in more than 50 operas and plays during the 18th and 19th centuries. His cult kept on growing and in , four years after Germany unified, a gigantic monument to him was completed near the northwestern town of Detmold, holding aloft a sword that is seven meters 23 feet long.
The figure evoked an increasingly aggressive nationalism in the run-up to National Socialist rule. As a result, schools shunned his story after World War II ended in , which explains why not all Germans these days have heard of him. However, interest was reawakened by the discovery of the Kalkriese site and by media coverage and the publication of new books on Hermann commemorating the 2,th anniversary of the battle in Some 1, school groups are among the 80, visitors who come to Kalkriese every year to see its growing treasure of exhibits and to walk the battlefield.
Every two years, there's a gentle re-enactment of the battle as part of a festival to show Roman and Germanic life 2, years ago. These days, it's easier to find Roman re-enactors than Germanic ones. Bendikowski believes the myth of Hermann will eventually fade. It will help us to understand ourselves and other nations better. It was a surprising upset when Germanic tribes fought the Romans and won in 9 AD.
The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest has spurned numerous myths - and experts are now poised to confirm its exact location. Visit the new DW website Take a look at the beta version of dw.
Go to the new dw. More info OK. Wrong language? Change it here DW. COM has chosen English as your language setting. COM in 30 languages. Deutsche Welle. Audiotrainer Deutschtrainer Die Bienenretter. Culture Unearthing the mysteries of the 'battle that created Germany' Archaeologists have launched a new drive to explore an ancient Germanic-Roman battlefield.
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